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EP 18 - Overcoming Fear, with Lori Kostenuk

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In this episode, we welcome back Lori Kostenuk, author of "The Laws of the Universe and the Bible" to discuss the powerful connection between faith, energy healing, and overcoming fear.

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Jaime White00:02

Welcome to today's episode. I'm so excited to welcome Lori, Kostenuk back. It's been one of our most listened to episodes. And so we're here to just continue the conversation go a little deeper see where it goes. Talk about fear and energy work and all the things. Lori, how have you been?

Lori Kostenuk00:26

Hi, Jaime. Thanks for having me on the show. I've been doing great. Doing great. Just just doing what I need to do to keep sane and to move into that higher levels of consciousness and higher, I guess state of being.

Jaime White00:47

Yeah. And the other thing today is we have a surprise guest with us as well, Kara White. So we're going to continue the discussion with the three of us whatever questions come up, we have no planned agenda. So this is a little different and fun. Lori, what is mostly on your mind right now?

Lori Kostenuk01:02

Well, I guess we look around us today in the world. And we see things shifting. And there's a lot of uncertainty. And it has brought a lot of fear for a lot of people. And I've been getting a lot of people reach out privately and wonder how to deal with things. And so I guess, I guess fear, if we could talk about that today. Because that's been, you know, a big deal for so many.

Jaime White01:37

Yeah. And recognizing what's anxiety God is asking us to step into, for me has been something that's been good too like this is a growth opportunity. For me. It is supposed to be a little bit fearful, in terms of its new. And so, I recognize it now, as you know, what is something that is not my fear or something that I need to deal with? And what is something that is just an opportunity for growth? Those are, that's what comes to mind for me, but where do you go on this subject?

Lori Kostenuk02:04

Yes, exactly. We fear. We look at that as being a kind of a negative thing. But it could, if we step into our fear, then it can be very positive, because it propels us forward. Whereas so many let fear, hold them back and cause paralysis. And I think I mentioned to you before just about Dean Potter, now Dean Potter is a trendsetter. slackline or highline trendsetter. And so he walks across canyons on a rope, basically. And I think of it as a tarp string. That's kind of how it's not tight, it's loose. So he says that every time he steps out onto that line, and he's like, he's looking down at a canyon below, he said, I have fear. But as he begins to take that first step, and then the second step is that fear starts to dissipate as he moves into the present moment. And it causes him to, he says, once I get into the zone, he calls it the zone, which is flow, which is also present moment, then he knows he's got it. And he says, he says, I'm not thinking about what I'm wearing. I'm not thinking about my boss, I'm not thinking about my kids, I'm not thinking about my problems with my girlfriend, he says, I'm in the now and there's nothing going on in my head except for that next step. And he says I would love to be able to get into that present moment without putting my life on the line. But he says I don't know how to do that. So that present moment is that place without fear. So there's and that's a whole subject on itself on how to get into that present moment where we just are being instead of doing

Jaime White04:13

Yeah so, is there anything that you can share on how you've been able to do that? I think for myself, I've learned some of it I'm curious what your perspective is on it.

Lori Kostenuk04:22

Fear is kind of attachment to the known. Okay, so we what we're fearing, we want to attach ourselves to what is comfortable, what we are known to be safe and comfortable in and sometimes fear drives us to make attachments to situations places people like I need to have this person do this for me. I need to have this person be this for me or I need to have the situation this certain way. I need to get that job I need to get money I need, I need, I need and so that needy energy is based on fear and insecurity. But there is a lot of fearful things going on in the world. And it's a matter of stepping into it with no attachments. As far as I've got to have this over, I need this to be over and done with in order for me to get back on my life, it's just having an I am, I am happy in this moment, whatever this moment brings, I am happy, I will take it. And I will learn from this moment, whatever that is.

Jaime White05:29

For myself, since our last podcast, I really stepped into creating prayers of thankfulness before it was happening. And so some of the things that would come up in our relationship, my relationship with my husband, he's been working through a lot of healing things. And so things would come up, and I would get really frustrated. And in the past, I would have hopelessness and helplessness and just different feelings of overwhelm. And I would shift my brain, I would just be really quiet, really specific and shift my brain into thinking, what would I pray for? If it could be possible, you know, and coming from that place of like, Thank you, Father for helping in a situation like if I needed to, that was my go to, and then starting to realize like, the more clarity I could get in asking, like, what is my specific ask, it just really shifted my brain and my body into a place of believing that it could be possible and is possible and is already happening? Yeah, instead of focusing on it, it is the same situation. And it is shifting my perspective, that the energy in my body, my ability to deal with whatever was coming up, and recognize that it actually isn't even connected to me, except for and how I'm reacting. It's been life changing.

Lori Kostenuk06:56

For sure. One thing that helps shift our fear, or not even just fear, it shifts our, you know, whatever it is, whether it's depression, or anger, is praise. And even like you were mentioning, in that place of prayer, you know, Father, I can't handle the situation on my own, but I know you can. And so I'm going to leave this in your hands, thank you for taking care of it. And that's, that is quite, that's how I kind of leave my prayers. And I can, I can truly leave that place of prayer. And with that weight off my shoulders. And that's where I'm at now. I mean, it took a while, you know, when you're going through stuff to be able to just leave it there and not worry about it all day. So that's I guess that's how you know if we've left it with him or not, is if we can leave that place a prayer thanking him, instead of saying, Oh, I hope he heard me you just think of Jesus, when he asked to raise Lazarus from the dead. He didn't say, Father, can you raise Lazarus from the dead? He said, Thank you for hearing me. So and then when Jesus got up from prayer, there was no doubt that God heard him. And that thanking, thanking God for what he's asking for. And that was even before Lazarus was raised. So this idea, I mean, Jesus, He prayed very powerfully, and when we can pray, like, thank you for hearing me, getting up from prayer with that, with that, knowing that's huge. That's huge. Whereas if we get up saying, Oh, I hope he heard me Well, then. I mean, that's doubt right? Praise goes along with that, to help reduce our fear. You know, I can't, but I know you can. You are all mighty, you are powerful. You can take care of this. And that's been huge for me too. And it's easy to go to, to spend our time praying about our problems, and saying, Please help me with this, or please help me with that, or, but what happens when we praise Him, then magic happens, our problems become diminished. And you think of Jonah, the first eight, the first eight verses of Jonah 2 while he's in the fish's belly. He's talking about his bad life, to God, he's, he's talking about his bad life. But as soon as he switched over to praise, then he was delivered. However, if we use prayer as a complaining session, that that's an odor, you know, and that doesn't get his attention, like praised us. And but that's what I found anyways, and I've had to learn that. And the more you praise them, the more we have to praise them for.

Kara White09:45

That's interesting to think about though because if you think about like David and his prayers, he often was complaining and we do complain, and God does care about those things. And yet, that's not where David necessarily ended his prayer. If it was ended in thanking God and finding the place of deliverance and understanding that God does care, he will take care of it. But when we stay in the place of complaining, like you said, like that doesn't have trust or thankfulness or belief that God is going to do something about it. And it's focused on ourselves, as well.

Lori Kostenuk10:25

Right. Right. And you think of Jesus with Lazarus, well, his best friend died. He could have said, God, why did you let this happen? You know why? You know why, why, why. But instead, he thanked God for hearing him even before Lazarus was raised. You know, so it there's like, praise and gratitude. And it's not that God's trick trickery, you know, he's using trickery on us. It's just that he knows what gratitude and what faith does for us, and praise what he does for us. It's not that he's selfish, and I want to hear people praise me. No, it's because he knows what it does for us.

Kara White11:07

Do you think that there's a difference between doubt and fear? Are they would you define them? Similarly?

Lori Kostenuk11:16

There's a connection. Definitely. Yeah,

Kara White11:20

yeah. Well, you were talking about earlier, I appreciate and that, that that, like doubt is self focused. When we are in doubt. We aren't thinking about God and what he is capable of. And we allow fear to run our life. When we stay in doubt.

Jaime White11:40

Yes, worry really kind of fits in that same category. Also. That's more of a fear for others.

Lori Kostenuk11:46

Well, yeah, like I would say, so. Okay, so if we, if we look on, on a frequency scale, we know we know the top of the scale is love. And the lowest is fear. Fear can totally paralyze us. A lot of people think the opposite to love is hate. But no, it's fear. Because fear is the lowest we can be and still be alive. Death, of course, is the lowest frequency, which is zero. When the Bible talks about that place of torment, hell was not made for humanity. It was made for Satan in his angels. That's where that's what the Bible tells us who Hell was made for. But then it does tell us that the wicked, the fearful, and the faithless, or who will be there, like what we do with our fear is huge. Do we allow it to propel us forward? Or do we allow it to keep it stuck in you know, with paralysis, because we're too afraid to move into the unknown. See, when we move into the unknown, that's faith, that's trust, right. And I think the reason why fear is, God looks at fear as such a low frequency or, you know, worthy of death, or hell or whatever, is because there's no trust, there's no love. If we truly have love and feel that free high frequency of love, like perfect love casts out fear, so you can't have both.

Jaime White13:24

So interesting.

Lori Kostenuk13:25

My son, his, his anxiety was a form of fear. And I mean, I don't want to speak for all anxieties, but for his situation, it was a form of fear. And well, he'll tell you it was his subconscious, being separated from God. And so it's it's a spiritual level, a separation. When he gets like, he's got certain symptoms that come back just before anxiety hits, so he kind of knows the warning signs. So he knows Oh, okay, I'm becoming separated from God, you know, my greater being my soul. And so he knows what he has to do, to get it back on track. So for him, it was a separation. And that makes sense to me. Because anxiety is a form of fear. And when we're separated from the love of God, this our soul, like there's that fear. Whereas if we were totally within his love, then there is no fear, because love casts out fear.

Kara White14:29

There's the verse in Romans that says, nothing can separate us from the love of God. So would it be accurate to say, when we are in fear, and letting fear run our life, that we're disconnected in some way from God and your spirit is disconnected. And it's not that God doesn't love us to clarify like me are still well within the love of God as far as what is extended to us.

Lori Kostenuk14:56

When I speak of the love of God, I don't mean God loves me not because we know that doesn't change, because God is and if I can, okay, so here's the love of God, right? And the higher we move in faith, or level of consciousness, whatever we want to call it, you know, the, the more we come into the fullness of His love. So when I speak of, you know, the, you know, we're, we feel far from the love of God, it's not that God is gone anywhere God is his love is still here. It's we have, we have moved down. So and, and I mentioned in my book that sin in the Bible refers to sin. So that's the biblical language, right? The Bible refers to sin. So what is sin? Sin is anything that takes us away from the love of God. It could be a thought it could be unforgiveness, it could be fear, it could be anxiety, it could be, like, even depression, we don't think of depression and anxiety is as a sin. But what is it anything that takes us away, so it just could be anything? Whereas in the, the energy world, we would call that, you know, just lower energies. We would call that lower energies. So it's the same thing, just different language.

Kara White16:25

Makes sense, thank you for clarifying.

Lori Kostenuk16:28

Yeah, well, it's, that's kind of how I see it. So if we are feeling a little bit of anxiety, or then we just, we just got to move up. You know, it's about and it's not as easy as that. It's, you know, you got to work on your trust level. Again,

Jaime White16:47

One of the things that we started talking about, briefly in one of our conversations, was going down the road of the physical healing a little bit, and our family has experienced some pretty cool things to the point where I'm not going back. One of the experiences that comes to mind is when someone has had a headache, or gotten a bloody nose, or, you know, just different things that haven't been because of something that they did wrong. You know, I think the stories that I heard growing up is like, Did you drink enough water? Or did you? You know, maybe it's too dry? Maybe you need this. And so many stories that I've heard for people's pain or ailments have just that we continue them. And we just, we heard that same story from someone else assumed maybe it was true for ourselves, maybe I need to drink more water. Maybe I need to do this. Maybe I need to lay down maybe I didn't get enough sleep. Maybe I work too hard yesterday, maybe I strained my back because I was kneeling. And what I've found is that primarily, these things are actually coming from emotions and energy blockages and different things in our body. Is that something that you've studied at all? Or have you seen anything like that?

Lori Kostenuk17:59

Okay, let's just look at Jesus. Okay. Jesus was, I believe he was probably the highest faith that you could have that a person could have and still be human. If his faith was any higher, he would turn invisible, like, like the angels, like he would have turned invisible. You know, you just think of a spokes on a wheel, how it vibrates so fast, and you can just kind of see through it. Right. So, so Jesus, I think his faith was as high as it could possibly be, and still remain visible on Earth. A human Jesus was whole, his health, he was whole in a physical way he was he was made whole as well, because he was whole spiritually right. So our mind, body and soul are all connected. And when something affects us on one plane, whether it be physical, it affects the mental or something as a mental it affects the physical, if you have a fear, or well, let me put it this way. A very good friend of mine, she had breast cancer, and she, she was the our kids soccer coach. She was fit as a fiddle. She was healthy. She worked out, she ate well, she was, you know, vegetarian, and he or she had breast cancer. Yeah. And I'm saying, I'm saying what, please tell me what do you feel, not what the doctors feel. But what is your own gut feeling as to why you got breast cancer when you were so healthy, you were, you know, you were physically active and you ate well, she says, Lorie, there's not a doubt in my mind what it was. She goes, I just went through divorce. It took its toll on me. And she goes, there's no doubt in my mind that it was my divorce and the stress that it caused.

Jaime White19:49

And my mom said the same thing to in terms of stress. She knew it was that and I asked her at one point towards the end after she had gone all over the world seeking treatment. And I said, Mom, is it possible that there's something that you need to let go of? She said yes, and I can't. And then, two weeks later, she did. Wow. And then she called my dad and had a conversation that she hadn't had in a while. And then died.

Lori Kostenuk20:13


Jaime White20:14

So we hear about it stress. But then what do we do about it? Right? So I mean, I mean, the study that I've gone into with the mind, the body, it's not at a level that I feel capable of teaching on in any way. I mean, there's so many references out there, and so many different things I've put together. But the research that I've done leads me to believe that there is a connection between our emotions, our energy and all these different, you know, the physical, mental, emotional and spiritual, there's, I just do not believe that that can be separated, and our bodies are our machines that if we just put the right food in, we get the right thing out.

Lori Kostenuk20:55

Well, I mean, we want to whatever we do, we want to have it contribute to our frequency, like we think of, like the highest frequency foods are fruits and vegetables, okay, and herbs, those are the highest frequency foods. So if we put in high frequency foods into our bodies, then that will help our frequency, I guess our goal is to increase our frequency, right? That's our goal. So if what we do, but then what we're we're not accounting for is the mental side of our frequency. And so you take an athlete, an Olympic athlete, and they, the difference between us a silver a gold medalist, and a silver medalist, they both train the same, they're both fantastic, physical, athletic, they're, they're in the top shape they can be. But the difference what makes the gold medalist is the mental game. Okay, so it's what they've got in here. So we've got the physical side of us, then we've got the mental side of us, and then we got the spiritual side of us. So the way to overcome a physical goal is in the mental realm, the one realm higher. And the way to overcome a mental goal is in a spiritual realm. So if we can conquer mean, so often we see with mental you know, anxieties, and fears, and stresses, like I call that all mental, like in the mental realm. So quite often what's what is, the first thing that people tend to do to try to solve a mental issue is they go, they go one round lower and get physical pills, to try and instead of going one realm higher, because a goal can easily be solved in a higher realm, as opposed to try and solve it in the same realm, if you know what I mean, if we go one realm higher, so like, you know, you think of that athlete, that gold medalist, if they if it was just physical, if those two athletes were competing, just physical, I mean, it would take so much more work. But if their mindset was was, was winning that gold, then that would be level less effort in the lower bound, required. So quite often, we try to solve our problems in the same realm in which it was created. And it's just like banging our heads against the wall.

Jaime White23:33

Well, that explains that explains it. Mic drop.

Kara White23:37

Lori, in your book, you talk about like, how things come to us when we're asking things of God we believe with faith, right? And I'm not going to get it exactly how you put it. Because it's also been a little while since I read your book but we believe in it's like it starts out in the spiritual realm and in the makes it wait its way to the physical realm, I believe is a kind of how you put it. If we think about that, like what appears in our physical, is it not a manifestation of our spiritual and I love how you're pointing out that we need to go one realm higher, and to look for the cause, and not just treat the symptoms.

Lori Kostenuk24:20

That's why when we do have an ailment, like say, something happens, we've, we do have an ailment. We, we need to look at that in such a way that oh, okay, there's something I'm supposed to learn here. Okay, so so, you know, a good question to ask God is okay, father, what do I need to learn? To help? So, you know, what, what are you know, what would it take for me to as we were saying, what would it take for me to understand what I need to do, to overcome this? So it's not like we're judging others. Okay. Well, they got this cancer. So they've obviously got some issues. No, it's It's more we're all on the potter's wheel all of us, right? Like, nobody's arrived, like, as far as, oh, I'm in perfect health. So I'm I must be, you know,

Jaime White25:19

There's another layer of growth, there's another level.

Lori Kostenuk25:23

Yes, yes. But I do find myself and it's funny with our kids. If we ask ourselves when something bad happens when we consider bad. We tend to ask each other okay, now what am I supposed to learn from this? What am I supposed to learn?

Jaime White25:40

My son, Ayden had broke his collarbone. And it was, you know, what did he need to learn from this, and he had booked his schedule so full, and he could not take himself out of anything. And so this was the permission, he needed to be able to say, Oh, I can't do that, or I can't do that. Simplify. And he knew that he had overbooked himself, but he couldn't say no to the things that he had already committed to. And so he didn't want to be the one, you know, to do it. And so the accident helped get him out of that situation.

Lori Kostenuk26:10

Yeah. Oh, for sure. And it's instead of saying, Oh, why did this happen to me? You know, it's good to, okay. What's the learning in this? And leave it open? Leave it open? What is the learning? When we leave it open, then we're free to have, you know, our inner guidance teach us. But when we come to conclusions on what it is to like, you know, I guess it's it's just about being open and not saying, Oh, this is bad.

Jaime White26:40

Is it sometimes where it's not always, for us to learn something, but the situation that we're in, we're impacted or affected? But it's actually someone else's learning experience, but it does impact us if we're in their circle of influence in some ways?

Lori Kostenuk26:57

I think so. I think so

Jaime White27:00

Maybe there is something for all of us to learn when we're in that circle of influence. But that was what just came to mind is sometimes this isn't actually about me, and just kind of recognizing that and being okay with that.

Lori Kostenuk27:12

Mm hmm. Yeah, I think so. However, there's a fine line too. Kara and I were just talking about this yesterday about this, you know, sometimes you're in a situation where you're putting up with a bunch of bad stuff. Yeah, thinking, Okay, well, you know, I'm going to help them down the road sometime? Well, there's a fine line between knowing when to back away, so probably the best thing to do is ask and ask the question

Jaime White27:44

What am I called to in this?

Lori Kostenuk27:47

Yes, or else should I back away, or, you know, if you if it feels light to back away, then you back away, if it feels heavy, not to so what is always true for us, will feel light, and it will feel right, there'll be flow, what is not true for us will feel heavy.

Jaime White28:03

I was talking to a business owner today. And she is just becoming aware of how we can kind of trust ourselves in asking these questions. And she's thinking about creating a community for men. Or originally, she wasn't sure, you know, if it needed to be men, and I said, does it need to be all men? And she goes, Oh, my goodness, it feels so light. was like, well, there's your answer. Yeah. And we don't have to question it. Like, we sometimes want to where it's like, but wait, you know, I don't want to leave the women out. Or, you know, maybe it's the other way around. Maybe it's a women's community, and you don't want to leave the men out. But all of these little details and decisions that were that we're making every day. It's our fears or doubts that come up, or the other old, old thinking ways of thinking, well, that kind of question, write that question and make it so that we question what felt like, you know, and then back away from it, well, that can't be true. Like, why why not? Why are you not? Well, why me? You know, that was what came up for her Why me? Okay, let's step into that.

Lori Kostenuk29:02

Okay, like, Why me? Why not me? Yeah, follow the lightness on everything. Some people muscle test, and they find their lightness that way. I just, I just go by light and heavy. I just go by light and heavy.

Jaime White29:18

It's been amazing to work with business owners that embrace this, because as a business coach and consultant, I can say to them, you know, are you called to work with women over 30? And then it's like, Oh, that feels heavy, you know, or are you called to, you know, like, all these things that sometimes we create so much confusion around and just kind of stay stuck in these patterns. And so a friend and I were, it was like, well, let's just jump in, you know, and I'll ask you a few questions. And we got such clarity. And then it was like, what's coming up for you here? I said, is there someone blocking you from wanting you to do this? And she said, Oh, yeah. And I'm one of the people she was She was acknowledging you know that she was a problem. And it was so cool. And she realized she said, I don't really I don't want to do it alone. Yeah. So we're actually going to partner on something, which is totally in alignment for me. But yeah, it was, it's just so fun to be able to work in the area of business and be able to work with people that are open to trusting that yes/no process and then being able to ask questions, because I'm really good at asking questions.

Lori Kostenuk30:25

Yeah, I know you are. One of the greatest hindrances to trusting your gut or trusting your inner guidance is just logic. Like, yes, we're, like, that's logic is part of the three dimensional realm, the more we tune in to our inner guidance for all things. The higher we rise, in frequency or in dimensions, you could say, 4d, instead of 3d is based on the five senses, touch, smell, you're hearing, smelling, tasting, okay? That's what the 3d world is about the five senses as well, as we rise into 4d. There's that sixth sense, right? Which is the spiritual, and it's tuning in to that. So logic is part of the 3d, and that quite often can interfere with like it just like when we were taking our kids to Thailand, I was doing all the booking and there's four, we have four children. So that's six plane tickets. And I said to my husband, I said, Well, if we go to Phuket, it saves us an extra flight times six. And he says, Well, you know what, I just really don't want to go to Phuket. It's just too commercialized. Like I just, I just feel like I want to go to Koh Samui, which was a more a smaller island down south, even if it meant six extra tickets. So I said, Okay, so I booked it. So we went to Koh Samui. And while we were sitting having breakfast one Sunday morning in Koh Samui, the big tsunami hit Phuket. You know, like he trusted his gut. You'd like that's that's intuition. Logic. To me. If I was trying to put logic into look at we save six tickets if we just if we were to look at that's logic. But he used his intuition. No, I just don't doesn't feel right to go to Phuket. I want to just go to Koh Samui. Yeah. And there's 250,000 people that died on that coast that day. 200 What year was that? That was in I O. So 2004.

Jaime White32:43

Yes. I know what day that was. My son was born the day after and my cousin flew or no, not the day after, sorry, the month before my cousin had been injured. And he flew out the day before the tsunami. Yeah, it was all we were all part of that. I mean, just I never knew about that part of the world. And then yeah, there was some piece of us still impacted even though wasn't connected for us. It's been so good to connect with you and talk again. And I know as always that this will not be our last time connecting. There's still more but thank you. Thank you so much.

Lori Kostenuk33:18

Thank you very much for having me. Of course. Nice to see you Kara and Jaime.

Jaime White33:22

Kara, thanks for joining us too.

Kara White33:25

Good to be here.

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